For all it’s worth, I drew combat pay for some 41 months in RVN, all but the first six months in direct combat assignments. I arrived in May of ’67 and was assigned to the 1st MarDiv G-2 shop on Hill 327 until November of the same year. (My OQR showed I spoke French and somehow Division thought that might come in handy – it didn’t.) From there I went to 1st Force Recon Co. until June ’68, extended and went to 1st Recon Bn. until January ’69, extended again, and was seconded to the PRU program until September ’69. While on extension leave in Jan. ’69, I managed to visit Kabul, Afghanistan, and stayed with the MSGs at the Marine House. The Gunny there, the MSG NCOIC, was a great host, showed me all around town, and helped me get a flintlock musket at the bazaar that had been captured from the British army by Afghan guerrillas ca. 1842. It has a stamp on the firing mechanism “VEIC 1807”, for ‘Venerable East India Company 1807’. I haven’t been back to Kabul since – maybe now’s not a good time to visit.
After I left the PRU, I returned to CONUS for Lao language school and returned to RVN in January 1971 for a year with the Naval Advisory Detachment (NAD) MACV/SOG, operating out of Danang. If I’ve done the math right, that works out to 29 months in-country on the first tour (’67 to ’69) and 12 on the second (’71 to ’72).
A good friend of mine, Col. Andy Finlayson, also had extended tours in Vietnam, a year on his first tour with 1st Force and about 19 months on his second, 6 months again with Force, then 6 months with the 5th Marines, and finally 7 months with the PRU. Andy has written a couple of books covering his extended tours in Vietnam which should be required reading for any military professional or historian. I recommend to you “Killer Kane” and “Rice Paddy Recon”, both on Amazon. And, yeah, this is a shameless plug for the books – but they’re worth it.
The guy Robert Bliss ran into sounds a little fishy to me. Recon, whether it was Force or Recon Bn., just wasn’t “working in small units ‘all over Nam'”.
At least during my time there, 1st Force was in direct support of either 1st MarDiv at Hill 327 or Task Force Xray out of PhuBai and 1st Recon Bn. was opcon/adcon solely to 1st MarDiv in the Danang TAOR. (I understand that 1st Force was forward deployed elsewhere in I Corps later, but that was after my time.) Even operational units under MACV/SOG tended to focus on specific areas, such as CCN (North) out of PhuBai, CCS (South) out of Kontum, and CCC (Central) out of BanMeThuot. NAD and Monkey Mountain FOB ranged a little more widely and NAD conducted maritime ops literally from the Delta (tho’ infrequently) to the DMZ and points north.
Sgt. Grit, I think you can tell Marine Bliss that he’s ‘outed’ another wannabe, otherwise known as a bald-faced liar.
That said, it was possible to stay for extended tours if you were a bit crazy. But then again, in my case, I was young and indestructible. People to this day ask me why I stayed in RVN so long. I tell them it was the right thing to do. I believed it then and I believe it now.
Semper Fi,
Fred Vogel
USMC/USMCR 1960 – 1995
Good read. Prior to Vietnam, was in “A” Co. 3rd Recon Bn. from Dec. 1959 to Jan.1961 in Okinawa. It was one of the best tours in my Marine Corps career of 20 yrs.
“And it was dark, So dark at night…
And we held on to each other, Like brother to brother, We promised our mothers we’d write.
And we would all go down together. We said we’d all go down together.
Yes we would all go down together.
Remember Charlie, Remember Baker,
They left their childhood, On every acre.
And who was wrong? And who was right?
It didn’t matter in the thick of the fight.” ~Bill Joel: Goodnight Saigon
No matter which field of Battle, the songs sound much the same.
I shall never forget!
Semper Fidelis
Screaming Hawk Out!
I was in 1st recon from 1969 until the last part of 1970. I was on 49 recon patrols. Everyone called me red dog. I do not remember you. I was in 1st platoon, 3rd sq. Alpha co..
I was CO of Alpha Company from July ’68 to Feb. ’69 – see the picture
I was in 1st Force from May ‘69, to April ‘70. The Company had just moved from An Hoa when I reported(Hill 34). I did not know the back story of 1st Force. Interesting.
My Pops who was in the Air Force, had an extended tour of six months. Didn’t think nothing of it back then, but now why would the Air Force do that. Was this a shared practice? I tried out for 3rd Recon when I was stationed in K-bay. On my second attempt I made it, but my unit CO who didn’t think I could, wouldn’t cut the orders. What happened next is another story.
I was in Lima 3/9 from 7/66 – 5/ 67. I was drafted. I went from Con Thien to Dong ha, then Da Nang for 5 days of R&R in Bangkok. My high school buddy, Billy Nemeyer, was in 1st Force so I went to Hill 327 to visit him. I’d been in the DMZ without hot chow for almost 4 months. It was good to see Billy. He had a SAW.
2 months later I got my 2nd PH with multiple fragmentation wounds. I was at NSA in Da Nang on a stretcher waiting my turn into the OR. On a bench outside the OR was a guy in a funny cammie uniform. I asked him who he was? He said he was a Navy SEAL from China Beach (Marines used China Beach for in-country R&R). He had his leg all wrapped up like a cartoon character. I asked him what happened and why he was waiting for the OR. He said he was playing quick draw in the barracks with his .45 and shot himself in the foot. He said the Navy Doctor said he had to wait until all the Marine Corps heroes went first.
I was a Marine Security Guard in Kabul in 1969 and 70. We had no Gunnery Sergeants. Our NCOIC was MSgt Jim Belin and he was replaced by MGySgt Len Maffioli. All 5 of us MSGs had a combat tour in Vietnam prior to our embassy assignments. I served with Echo 2/9 and was wounded during TET of 68. Sgt Greg Krause serve with 2/4. Sgt Neilen was with 1st Recon. Can’t remember who Sgt Alvino Clow served with. I don’t remember Vogel spending the night at our Marine House but again, I don’t remember what I had for breakfast this morning. Irregardless, Semper Fi to Mr Vogel and thanks for posting his story
I stayed at the MSG House in January ’69, for about 4 days. I don’t recall the name or rank of the NCOIC, but ‘Gunny’ was close enough. I do recall that you had good chow.
BTW, I still have the flintlock musket I got there, with the ‘Gunny’s’ help.
Semper Fi Capt.;
For those of you always looking for fakes. If you were to ask me where I was over there being in 2nd recon I can point out on a map, after 55 years and bullet wounds and writing on a dd214. What about the vets who got their brains scrambled Wow I asked you a question only I know about and you couldn’t answer it so you must be a fake. Yes I was a gunny over there 69 thru 72 and I found 50% of Marines were in deed liars and cheats. If it wasn’t in your pocket it was gone. Leave the intelligence to the experienced investigators to expose the wanna be’s. Your probably a supporter of the wounded warrior project who takes credit away from the VA and parties with your donations.
Not sure what you’re trying to say, Gunny. But if you have any question about my story, I’d be happy to send you a copy of my DD214. Also, have to say I don’t agree that Marines were ‘liars and cheats’. Semper Fi to you as well.
Now thats a good one.
I was S-2 Hq Co 1st Marines when you got there in May 67. An 0311, I was assigned to Intelligence after 12 weeks in DLIWC for Vietnamese Southern. In May 67 we were still involved in Operation Union with the 5th Marines. Rotated 29 Sept 67. Gave them only one chance to kill me. I often wondered what happened to the guys who extended and after a few years reached out to the parents of a buddy who extented for 6 months in Aug 67 for the sniper squad. He came back before I left in September and got to experience TET 68. To my surprise he made it and we met at his VFW to catch up and quaf a few beers. Small world and forever bonded to people we spent a short but memorable time with.
My late former father-in-law, CWO Raymond A. Scaffe, served three tours in Nam. He was an Army Ammunition Officer and came out with a Silver and Bronze Stars. So, having extended tours is just a thing.
Kendel Scaffe
Sgt. USMC/USMCR ’75-’85
Capt Vogel, I was assigned to the G-2 from June to Nov 1967. We probably talked to each other. I read the books you recommended, they were very good. Co. Finlayson was from New Jersey and vacationed in my hometown, Wildwood.
Bill, I was at the G-2 from May to November 1967, before going down to 1st Force. I’m sure we ran into one another quite a bit during that time. Good to hear from you. Semper Fi
Just finished Finlayson’s two books you recommended. Very good read.
Capt Vogel- Good to hear that you’re still north of dirt! Joined Alpha in early ’68 as the Co Radio Chief. Have fond memories of 1st Sgt Otis Barker and his PT runs.
Semper Fi,
Sgt MP McManus
Sgt. McManus – great to hear from you and happy that you’re still around, too. I learned a lot from 1st Sgt Barker. I have to dig deep after all these years, but I do remember you as well. Semper Fi and thanks for all you did in that far away place long ago.