Just my opinion: I have know idea if boot camp is harder today or fifty+ years ago. I think everything is relative to the times. I do believe that the marine’s of today are better trained than we were. The one big
difference is, we did not have to deal with the PC Police watching and listening to everything we do or say, or diversity training. What a crock. And they wonder why moral and military discipline is at an all time low. I blame the past administration.
My grand-son is in the Army ( 8yrs; S/Sgt. ) I am extremely proud of him. When he deployed to Afghanistan it scared the crap out of his grandmother and me. He came home safe and sound, not a scratch. Our prayers were answered. We would set and talk about his deployment, he told me some stories that made me mad as hell. It had to do with the “ Rules of Engagement “. While on patrol with his unit ( on many occasions ), they would come under fire from insurgents. If the insurgents had the upper hand they would stand and fight. But if that changed, what did they do ? Throw down their weapons and raise their hands over their heads and surrender. Now it really gets worse. They must arrest them and read them there rights. Then turn them over to Intelligence. ( thats a contradiction in terms ) To be questioned. After they are questioned, guess what is done? Turned loose to go back into the fight. Now what moron came up with that load of crap? I can only hope with the election of the new Commander in Chief and the appointment of Gen. Mattis as Sec. Of Defense this will all change.
This is just my opinion, and opinions are like noeses, everybody has one.
Chuck Wilson
1958 – 1962
MCRD Plt. 1019
Sgt Grit wants to hear from you! Leave your comments below or Submit your own Story !
*Chuck I was in the Marine Corps from 11-64 to 11-68.I was in Nam from April 67 to May 10,1968.I have a son who was in the Army and in both Iraq and Afghanistan between 2007 and 2009.We both have PTSD, but I think that my son’s PTSD is worse than mine. In Vietnam there were plenty of places for the Vietcong(Charley)to hide,especially during our Night Patrols. They hid in the Villages, in the Mountains, the Valleys, the Rice Paddies and the Tunnels they excavated in the ground. Where can you hide in Iraq and Afghanistan?? All they have is Sand and Buildings.*Pete(age 71)*Houston, Texas*
I agree with you, Chuck. My tour was also 1958 – ’62. MCRD, Parris Island Platoon 304. I agree with what you said about Marines being in better shape and their hands are tied with the way the war is now. In ’58 we did not have the Crucible. I can see where that would teach “Teamwork”. In any event, I’m proud to have served during peacetime, although I was involved in “The Bay of Pigs”. USS Boxer and on to Vieques. Great time on that Island. Semper Fi to all my brothers in the Corps. Victor G Peary, Cpl E-4, Comm. Support Co., 2nd FSR, FMF Camp Lejeune, NC.
Chuck,Semper Fi my friend.I’am with you.
Chuck, I believe the easiest time in boot camp was after the Ribbon Creek affair un til the start of the Vietnam War. The DIs were paranoid about having a plant in the Platoon. Every puke was a suspect. I never saw any DI hit any Recruit. One little slap would have ended their career. Semper Fi Cpl E3 and E4 plt 141 1957
I went through PI in 1958, a few years after the incident. Supposedly Sgt. McKeon, the DI involved, now a PFC, introduced himself to me with a hard thump to the chest. I can recall a number of incidents where either me or others were hit with open and closed fists. Being my name is the same as the involved DI, I became a continuous reminder of the incident.
That’s why they say. You went through p.i. your a shitbird from yammesy. LOL. Worse for you is having McKeon for your name in boot camp – llordy lordy how the d. I. Must have lived you. Semper fi. Jerry Lopez plt 186 MCRD Hollywood.
I have to disagree with part of your comment, Chuck. I went through PI in 1962 and although the PC police were watching the drill instructors like a hawk, I don’t believe that it slowed down too much. Some maybe, but not entirely. It was not unusual for our drill instructors to thump a recruit when there was nobody in sight. I was fortunate and only got thumped one time, some of the others got it on a regular basis. According to the drill instructors’ belief, it was only illegal to thump a recruit if you got caught. We even had a recruit receive a blanket party and almost got a court martial for attempting to report it to the doctors at sick bay. — Believe it if you want, but thumping continued — only outside the eyesight of anyone who would attempt to enforce the hands off policy.
J I was at PI June of 1960 and my DI’s were knocking us around all the time. I had a terrible habit of laughing when they screamed at me. I was willing to do whatever they asked and no had to scream at me to motivate me, but screaming was part of the SOP. I got my butt whipped for laughing many times. I got punched in the abs, slapped on the ear with a Marine Corps ring, slapped in the face and they threw in a few kicks for good measure. Other guys the same, but they were able to control their laughter. I never resented it because it was part of the plan. But our senior DI got court marshaled for taking money from the recruits. He called it ‘flight pay’.I was told he got an dishonorable discharge and some brig time. I have a pretty good size article on it from one of our local papers. If you want a copy shoot me an email at keelerbarraks.1@gmail.com. Semper Fi. I was in the 1st BN at PI, Plt. 152. buzz
About a DI hitting a recruit, I was at MCRDSD Plt. 154 Feb. 1966 and I was hit and kicked many times. I did not hold it against any DI, it made me a better Marine. I saw one of my Di’s in Vietnam, at the hill 327 PX area I talked to him and got him a beer. He remarked about my being an E 4, I went over as a E 1, I had been in Country around 8 or 9 months, I of course said I see your still a E 5. And had a laugh. Good thing to remember, too much bad.
You are right on the mark Chuck. I was in from 1960 to 1964 and things were not exactly a picnic in Boot Camp. I have a friend that went through Boot Camp about four years ago. From what he said it still isn’t a picnic, but one thing he told me was, after the lights went out he could hear some of the recruits crying. I didn’t hear any of this in 1960. I noticed at the heading of this Sgt. Grit page they are comparing Chesty to Mad Dog. Mad Dog is a great Marine, but couldn’t hold a light to Chesty. Different breed entirely……..Semper-Fi
Yes, General Mattis is a great Marine and combat leader. General Puller was a great Marine, combat leader and warrior.
You nailed it, Chuck…. One of my G-sons is in the cCorps now, and will be deployed…. All we can do is pray, and hope that “Mad Dog” can change things..I was in from 6/12/58 thru ’61… Then was told if I ship over, I’ll get another stripe, and go to this country calld Vietnam…. You’ll like it there, you’ll be training the U.S. Army, ’cause they had to jungle training…… My eyes wer open wide….. WE NEED TO CHANGE IN THIS COUNTRY TO CONTINUE!!!!
Greetings, Chuck. Have you heard anything aboutS/Sgt Coulter, or Sgt’s Wheeler and Buckwalter (?) since we graduated? You are only the second 1019 alumni to surface since we graduated. I agree that today’s rules of engagement are totally ridiculous. Get the politicians and careerists out of the military. Once a unit is placed in harms way that unit should be able to accomplish their missions without being micromanaged by a bunch of PC retards. Get in touch.
Geoffrey: I can’t place you, but at 75 I can’t place a lot of things. I do have our old graduation Plt, book, will check it out. As far as S/Sgt Coulter, I was with 10th marines in 62. I was walking down the passage way, in front of the batt. office. I look up, and low and behold I see this guy coming toward me. It was S/Sgt.Coulter ! He didn’t have a clue who I was, but after a little conversation he said he remembered me. More than likely a load of crap. The a–hole did bum a quarter from me. I think he was an office poge in 1st Battalion. As far as Sgt. Wheeler, nothing. I live in Sherman, Texas. Good to here from you.
The problem is you are blaming the wrong part of your government. I’ll bet you and your neighbors did not vote out your current congress man or senator. Executive branch (oversight) legislative branch ( enact laws ) judicial branch (check constitutionality). Place blame where blame is due, the current commander and chief has done nothing constitutionally correct since he took the oath that we took. Why does anyone insist that everybody is working just to discredit him. The hole world is lying and he is right. Can you A Nut. The President is an executive not a dicktator (error is intentional).
KEEP POLITICS THE FK OUT OF THIS FORUM !!!!Harry
Rules of engagement hell! We go into war to win. it’s a good thing there were no ROE when HST dropped the bombs on Japan. Although many lives were lost, just imagine how many were saved.
Pete, I think the Marines today are just as tough as the the Vietnam era Marines. As a Navy corpsman, I spent 13 years of my 30 year Navy career with the Marine Corps. My tour in Vietnam with 1st Recon Bn based out of ChuLai 66-67 was most probably the most defininitive year of my life. The older Marines were always talking about the “old Corps” and the likewise the Marines today. I recently retired from my job as a county Veteran Service Officer after 10 1/2 years and helped the Vets submit their claims to the VA. I ran into Marines from all the eras, except the Tun Tavern era, and they’re all pretty much the same. Some of the terminology has changed, as has the equipment, but they still talk the same and do the same stuff, as in, when the shots ring out, they moved toward the shots, not away from them. Proud to have served with them and always will be. Semper Fi, my friends. J. Reed, HMCM (FMF), USN, Retired.
In Boot Camp or maybe at Camp Geiger – we were informed by one of our instructors about the Code of Conduct – as some servicemen in Korea – were brainwashed after they were captured – and so called dropped the ball as to what they were and why they were there? The Staff NCO read us the Code of Conduct and gave us a copy of this and gave a sermon like lecture that ended in a screaming end- telling us we were United States Marines and we never give up- or hope- or let down our fellow Marines- and also- said it was a disgrace that the Code of Conduct was ever written in the first place. We were a team and no matter where we went we would always be a team- ( the strong would give the weaker ones courage ) and we would rise together to overcome any obstacle as a unit- Brother by Brother- fire teams and squads – or a platoon or Company- or any Command- we would fight and think as one or together and divide our responsibilities- leave no one behind-and accomplish the Mission.
Hey Chuck:). I agree wholeheartedly about this crap about getting permission to engage the enemy!!? They should do it like we did in Vietnam, shoot first and then ask questions!!?? It worked for us then why the hell are we challenging these assholes now? What is this crap about reading them their rights? I say FUCK THEIR RIGHTS!! Semper Fi….Al Scott “F” 2/1 Vietnam ’65-’66
I went through boot camp in 1963. It seems there is always some Marines that have the impression that Marine boot camp has gotten soft. IT CERTAINLY WASN’T IN 63. I think boot camp will always be tough-that’s what make Marines. DI’s always seem to find a way, no matter what the brass want. They can certainly do it without thump call or the salty language but these do add a certain flavor to the boot camp recollections. Hopefully, now that we have a defense secretary with a pair, there will be no softening of boot camp.
Chuck a much as it pains anybody and everybody the new administration is not going to change that and Mattis will tweak but won’t change the rules but I do believe the rules weren’t as lax as your son says I talked to quite a few who came back and their stories were different than what I read, like u said “my humble thoughts only”